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 Post subject: cone type oil filters
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:20 pm 
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Location: Henderson
I was reading on another exploration site that some owners of 4x4 vehicles thought that running any type of cone air filter or etc. that needs oiled is a no no in a desert setting. Some of these owners stated just keep the factory air box and filter to prevent intrusion of dust or water to prevent excessive engine wear.

Any thoughts much appreciated

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:54 pm 
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Location: Caliente, NV
I think that the paper versus oiled filter element topic is as old as what's the best beer. I have seen it tossed around and around for years now on bulletin boards and haven't seen too much evidence IMO as which is the perfect choice for all applications all the time. I have seen air flow tests done (in perfectly controlled settings mind you) that say both are superior to each other. I guess it depends on which brand's own testing info you want to believe. And, mainly what you plan to achieve in the long run.


What I do know from first hand, are dyno results showing HP gain; is that a recently cleaned oiled filter flows better over any paper element we could find. But an oiled element that was dirty (say like 5000+ miles worth) produced the same as a clean paper element. I'd assume they'd stay close to the same the dirtier they got but we weren't looking for that info. This was in a circle track scenario, and about 8 years ago and I know there are some new styles of elements out there. Ford has one they claim can go over 100K. Now I know day to day driving is different than a race car, but I know of numerous teams that run dirt with oiled elements when legal in their rules. So there must be an advantage. And these are guys running stock cars, sprint cars, off road vehicles, etc. A race engine turning 7K+ RPMs for a few hours, with all the on and off the throttle variations in between is a lot more wear and tear than most mall cruisers see in 100K miles. And not every race engine gets rebuilt after every race. If you cleaned one after every off road run (many clean theirs after every race for example) you'd likely enjoy the benefits of the filter's intent. The issue is many daily driver users don't clean theirs regularly enough to make it worth while. In fact many likely buy them for the selling point idea that they can pop it in and forget about it for a year or more, which is false. They need to be checked often (at least every oil change) and cleaned realistically every 10K (or sooner) in our environment, not counting any off roading use. My K&N's have lasted for quite some time though, maybe they will last as long as they claim which is 1 million miles.

Supposedly, the paper element companies claim they trap more dirt than a oiled filter does. But the funny thing almost every paper element company now has their version of an oiled element now. So did they give in to the masses or what? But they claim they trap more debris, which in turns stops it from getting into your cylinders and scratching them. Maybe, but honestly, I have never heard of an engine dying early from too much cylinder wear from air born debris. Seems it usually comes down to an oil issue which is a whole 'nother can of worms. Oh, and oil filters too. As far as water, if you are going in any deep enough to get through the air intake system to cause damage (mainly hydro-locking), you should have a snorkel. No stock or after market air system is going to stop that though. Also, keep in mind you can inject fine water mist into a gas or deisel engine and improve it's performance. That's why engines tend to run better in high humidity areas.

If you want the benefits of increased air flow, then maybe an oiled element is for you. I'd recommend using a mesh pre-filter as well, it saves the element from most damage and cuts down on cleaning the element so frequently and supposedly doesn't restrict air flow. If you want ease of maintenance, then I'd say go with a good paper element. IMO and from the independent data I have seen, Wix makes a pretty good one as far as trapping debris and allowing for maximum air flow. BTW, they are one of the ones to claim they trap more dirt than a oiled element while still providing max air flow. Also, think of a vehicle's engine as a big air pump. The more you suck in (intake), the more you have to pump out (exhaust). Any restriction along the way (small bore throttle body or small carb, stock exhaust versus headers, etc) likely makes shelling out the money that most air filter systems (regardless of element type) cost not worth it unless you make upgrades down the whole system. I know you can buy K&N "like" filters everywhere, but remember you get what you pay for. Summit Racing and Jegs make some decent ones from what I have seen, but I'd save my money on the ones they sell at Auto Zone and Pep Boys. Unless you just want the look of a K&N filter for some reason, then well it's your money.

I run Wix (actually Car Quest brand made by Wix) in my truck and Karen's Jeep. They last a long time and I'm not looking for any gains in my HP from those vehicles. I check them every oil change, knock the loose stuff out and change them when they get grungy. I run a K&N in my Scout, and ran one for a long time in my Gran Torino till I parked it. Both of those vehicles have performance upgrades to where running a K&N makes a noticeable difference in power. But cleaning them every 6K miles or so and re-oiling them is a PITA. Then again hearing the secondaries on a 4 barrel carb open up at full throttle (something I have never heard with a paper element) is sweet :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:51 am 
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Location: Winnemucca, NV
Probably re-stating what Gary already has, but ...

* I checked into this myself some years ago and the majority of people I talked to said K&N filters let too much dirt into the intake system. My gut feeling is that this is likely more due to their lack of proper filter maintenance than the design of the K&N (I ran K&N's on all of my bikes).

* I chose to stick with stock. No mess, no fuss. Works fine for a lazy person like me who don't wrench on my own vehicles (too complicated, too small, manufacturers build in guaranteed failure to thwart off road repairs).

* For several years I ran a stock NAPA heavy duty filter. Some said I was stupid, but I blew it out after each off road run and periodically during normal driving with my shop air compressor with the regulator wide open (100 psi) with no visible problems or tears in the filter. I'd check the intact tract as far as I could see with a light and see no visible dust. Nearly 150,000 miles with no apparent oil use or engine wear (I don't bother to even check the oil and my shop says my oil level is always on full and still honey colored when the oil is changed every 6,000-8,000 miles or whenever I bother to take it in) or other engine wear or fuel / air / oil maladies.

* I tried Fram's Tough Guard filter once, which is oiled like a K&N. However, I won't make that mistake again. It did the job fine. I just didn't like a visibly dirty filter after one off road excursion that wouldn't blow off ... :wink:

* If you want high performance, go with a good aftermarket filter. Or if you like to tinker with your vehicle(s)If you don't need or want more HP, my advise it to stay stock.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:25 pm 
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Location: Las Vegas,NV
It's a personnal choice. i run a K&N filter, offroaded with it for years. if i was going into the real siltty, fluffy dirt or water i would put my filter wrap on. when i was done i just took the wrap off.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:48 pm 
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Thought they were developed for desert racing?
I've run the Airaid oiled filter intake system for years. Jeep has 125k on it now. I switched because the factory airbox allowed dust to pass. I would see dust inside the hose on the clean side when changing the paper. Leaked around the filter's gasket on any filter I tried even K&N oiled stock replacement. The airaid is clamped on to it's intake hose and have seen no dust on the clean side since, although there is a slight oil residue. True it can look ugly after a dusty run. I clean it about twice a year. One of those is after the Ely runs in July. In a pinch if it's really dirty and you are worried you can just spray more oil onto the dirty filter and keep going till you can clean it. The whole intake system is a big improvement over the stock box and k&n stock replacement filter. You lose about 6 inches of fording depth, but if you are that deep you are in trouble anyways as many vent tubes for things like tranys are not as high as your intake. Andy found that one out for us by getting the Colorado River right up to the stock intake. water went into the transmission and he found out about it a few thousand miles later.

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