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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:56 pm 
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From Elise with Partners In Conservation
I went to the meeting in Mesquite last night and will be at the LV one. They have some great maps and are encouraging everyone to write notes on the maps--which they will scan--this is a great way to point out favorite spots, trails, etc. Since a lot of your recreation is group-oriented, i think it is important to ask for larger trailheads, camping grounds etc for your favorite areas. They want to know where we think facilities need to be like restrooms, parking areas. We need to focus not only on the motorized aspect, but all the other related recreation items also. These are scoping meetings, so this is where they gather all the items that are important to us; if something is not addressed in the scoping meetings, it may not (doesn't have to be) addressed in the actual planning document at the end of this process so we need to let them know everything that is important to make sure it gets included in the rest of the process. For example, if we don't say we want to travel in washes, that issue may not be addressed and if not addressed it can mean it might not be allowed anymore in the final planning document. Elise

Elise McAllister
Member Since 2009

Las Vegas Travel and Recreation Implementation Plan and Environmental Impact Statement.

Open House March 3, 4:30 - 7:30
4701 N Torrey Pines Dr
Las Vegas, NV

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:30 am 
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It was a good gathering. Mostly 4 Wheelers, Quad, and MC people. Very few Sierra Club types. We were able to provide the BLM and their agents some good info. I'm glad for the good turnout. Thanks

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:12 pm 
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Just to play a little Devil's Advocate. I'd like to coin a new term, other than "greenies", "Sierra clubbers", "environmentalists", and terms like those. The problem is, those terms are too broad. I consider myself an environmentalist, I agree with many green policies, and I salute the actual, written mission of the Sierra Club I bet most of you do too. The Sierra Club's mission is

"To explore, enjoy, and protect the wild places of the earth; To practice and promote the responsible use of the earth's ecosystems and resources; To educate and enlist humanity to protect and restore the quality of the natural and human environment; and to use all lawful means to carry out these objectives."

The term "environmentalist" is about as broad as the term "car-owner". The problem is not environmentalism PER SE. It's a branch of environmentalism that views humans as inherently evil, that feels any lasting human change to the earth is wrong, and that nature, without humans, is inherently perfect. I wouldn't call these folks environmentalists. I'd call them (for lack of more imagination) anti-humanists. They are the folks who think that "nature is always right," and, at their most extreme, they think "the Earth would be better without humans." Obviously, this is a simplification as well. But, I think it gets a little closer to the true issues, and the true conflict.

We do a couple of disservices when we assume that all environmentalists are anti-humanists. First, we are dismissing other reasonable, educated people who actually feel the same way we do about land-use issues and such. Second, we are portraying ourselves inaccurately. We all love the outdoors, we don't want to see it damaged, and we wish more people would be educated about the marvelous Mojave desert. Thus, in the true sense of the word, we are all environmentalists.

The term "environmentalist" has simply become too politicized, and no one knows what it means anymore. So, we just need to be careful, and say what we really mean. Labels are always simplifications, so my suggestion to create yet another label may seem facetious. And yet, it's human nature to use labels. So, let's at least try to use one that's a little more accurate. If anyone has something more catchy than "anti-humanist", let's hear it! :D

My two cents on a Saturday.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:02 pm 
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Dawn, you, of course, are correct. The last thing I want to do is hurt the mountains or deserts. I want to protect them as much as the "anti-humanists". I guess the difference is how we feel the earth has been affected by our actions.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:14 pm 
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Hey now, Tom, You don't think I was picking on you, do you? Poking at you, sure enough. Picking on you? Nah, not today. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:57 am 
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After seeing the condition of Gold Butte last week, I can certainly understand why people would want certain areas off limits to "enthusiasts". I have been into trail riding for well over 25 years, and always (without having to read about it) been into the "leave no trace" rules. My first sight upon arriving at the townsite was garbage strewn all over. Both in bags and flying around loosely. Secondly, every single piece of metal on that site was riddled with bullet holes. On first look, I'd be willing to say "no more, I don't want these people desecrating this site any further". This is the behavior that will close off more and more land to OHV use.

Maybe the wrong place for a rant, but I was really disheartened at how this area had been treated.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:07 pm 
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I always liked the term eco-terrorists. While true that many don't take the extreme action that you see in the news, they're closer to being terrorists in their ideals than a true enviromentalist like T. Roosevelt was.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:28 pm 
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Yeah, DesertRat, the sad thing is, there could be a million people who use an area wisely, but because they do, their effects are never seen. We only see the results of the people who act poorly, even if its the minority. I'm always perplexed by the attitude that some ignorant folks seem to have... "What a beautiful area, let's enjoy it, then leave all our trash behind!"

Closing areas off is obviously the easiest solution. The better solution is to find people willing to "host" an area, and keep it clean. And, sometimes, well-produced signage can make a difference. Not just "keep out", but "here's why driving in this spot is not a good idea.", etc. Problem is, I've yet to see a sign that can't be obliterated with a shotgun or spray paint.

Ecoterrorist isn't a bad term, but maybe a bit harsh for those anti-humanists who don't want to actively hurt people, but just want to keep them entirely out of an area, because humans taint the perfection of nature. Hmmmmm.... maybe "nature segregationists"?

And this is what happens when I can't go jeeping/exploring on weekends. I get stuck on the computer. :P


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:33 pm 
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How about "Enviro-Nazis". They seem to have the attitude of "you will do it my way or we wll make you suffer for it" so I see them as somewhat facist.

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