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 Post subject: Propane
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:13 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:38 pm
Posts: 9
Any Backroaders running propane down here in the hot open desert?
I want to know your experiences over time with the conversion and if you thought it was worth while please.


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 Post subject: Re: Propane
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:13 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:03 pm
Posts: 174
Location: Winnemucca, NV
Never ran propane in a street legal vehicle, but I've had a dozen years with propane powered forklifts when I was working in the borax plants in Trona, California; which is located just west of Death Valley and darned near as hot in summer.

In short, they ran just fine.

Used propane because of the lowest emissions in a closed environment (inside warehouses, boxcars, semi-truck vans, cargo ship containors); but they got just as much outside use. Summer temps regularly in the 110s and now and then in the low 120s; wintertime temps at night regularly in the 20s, with occasional dips into the teens and now and then the single digits.

At first we used old Cat lifts, then went to Toyotas in the late 1990s. I left there after retiring in 2004.

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 Post subject: Re: Propane
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:08 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:07 pm
Posts: 370
Location: Henderson, NV
Uncle Bob,, I drive a taxi here in 'Vegas.. We have a fleet of over 500 Ford Crown Vics,, all running on propane ! I started driving in '94, and they were using propane then too.. They run great, get the same gas mileage as gas, but a lot cleaner.. Even in the harsh conditions of hot , stop & go traffic of the Strip,, we go 10,000 miles between oil changes , using just standard oil, not synthetic ! When they tear down an engine with 300,000 miles on it, it looks like a new engine inside ! No sludge, varnish or build-up of any kind inside ! I'd say that if you can do the conversion, you'd like it.. The problem is getting the propane ! I only know of 3 places in the valley where you can buy 'automotive' propane.. Only at the Truck Stops !!! That's a real drawback if you want to go out in the desert !!! Phil

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 Post subject: Re: Propane
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:11 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 8:05 pm
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Location: Ruth, NV
There is only one propane powered offroad vehicle in the valley that I know of. That would be the Mogster (Unimog) owned by Joe O. from VV4W. You can try e-mailing him with your question, he would have more answers than we would.
His e-mail address is joe@vv4w.org.

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 Post subject: Re: Propane
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:44 pm
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Location: Las Vegas, NV.
Thanks Dave Wright for bringing up a nightmare of mine. Trona ,Ca. I used to load Soda Ash from Kerr-Mcgee out there. The first time I went there in the 70s all I had on was a tank top for a shirt. The only other thing I had was a jacket. It was the middle of summer and they made me wear that jacket for the whole couple hours I was there. What a Hell hole that place was.

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 Post subject: Re: Propane
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:25 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:03 pm
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Location: Winnemucca, NV
Trukdj wrote:
Thanks Dave Wright for bringing up a nightmare of mine. Trona ,Ca. I used to load Soda Ash from Kerr-Mcgee out there. ... What a Hell hole that place was.

:lol:

I went to work for Kerr-McGee in 1986 in Wyoming coal mines, transferred to Trona in February 1987. My ex-wife's family all lived there. I worked in Argus process (soda ash production) 1987-1992, company stores in Argus 1992-1995, then Logistics right across the tracks from Argus shipping next to the old Trona Potash buildings for the rest of my tenure there.

I remember during K-M days many used to transfer back and forth between Trona and K-M's facility in Henderson. Sometimes I wished I transferred to Henderson, I'd have been out of California and in Nevada much sooner than I did.

Yeah, Trona was a hell hole, but it was a much better place during the Kerr McGee days, which ended when K-M sold the place in 1991. I finished raising my kids there and it was a great place for kids as there were a lot of activities then. From 1992 onward, downsizing took place and many people moved away. People who couldn't sell their homes burned them down, then the Tweekers invaded Trona. Since most of the homes were built in the 1930s and sided and shingled with asbestos, San Bernardino County refused to clean up the mess and all the burned homes were left as a pile of rubble or partially standing. Many eyesores dotted every block. It was sad.

I was fortunate and sold my home there early and moved back to the eastern Sierra near Bishop (I lived north of Mammoth Lakes - 1974-1985 - before I moved to Wyoming) and got an apartment there in Trona to use on my working days down there. Most businesses closed and the school is barely hanging on. It's stabilized now, but I haven't been back there since I left in 2004.

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 Post subject: Re: Propane
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:08 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:38 pm
Posts: 9
Thank you RubiconBob, I will email Joe O.
Also, I have heard similar accounts of high mileage and low carbon/sludge buildup in engines run on LPG LV Cabbie.

In idle conversation my dad had mentioned of Boron and later Trona from way back in the 50's and 60's while he was working on expanding the mining and refinement operations through the teamsters hall on various job calls.
He mentioned the alkali in the desert flats that ate through an old jeep he had within the span of a year, along with mention of some incredibly large Mohave green rattlers and the heat was incredibly dry and hot compared to Rosamond/Quartz Hill.
I guess if you live there you do not notice as much and it is just part of everyday life.


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 Post subject: Re: Propane
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:31 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:03 pm
Posts: 174
Location: Winnemucca, NV
Trona is just a place you have to experience ... :lol: Many movies were made in or near there. The Trona Pinnacles south of town have been a movie and printed media advertisement backdrop for a century. You've likely seen them, just didn't know where or what they were.

Propane is probably the best fuel source behind hydrogen, in my opinion. However, the tanks are bulky and heavy, filling up is probably best left to trained attendants (though not difficult, serious injuries can result if careless) and like any alternative fuel the infrastructure to fill up isn't there; although most every gas station and hardware store has propane for barbecues. I don't know if there's a difference between fuel for that purpose and automotive use.

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~When You Live in Nevada, "just down the road" is anywhere in the line of sight within the curvature of the earth.


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 Post subject: Re: Propane
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:55 am
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Location: Las Vegas
No difference in LPG for bbq, home or car, just if they are trained or willing to fill larger tanks on a vehicle. Kits are available for carb or injected. Cost of conversion, fuel convienience and the fact that dual fuel does not qualify for smog exemtion (must be dedicated alt fuel) have kept me from altering the Jeep. Higher end is CNG, but with CNG and a CNG compressor($$) you can fill up at home.

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 Post subject: Re: Propane
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:44 pm
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Location: Las Vegas, NV.
Grand parents lived in Bishop in the late 70's till their deaths. Grandfather worked at the radio station there. North of Mammoth as in June Lake or Lee Vining, went there for many years and love that area. Used to ski Mammoth in the 70's, Good memories there. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Propane
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:19 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:03 pm
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Location: Winnemucca, NV
Trukdj wrote:
North of Mammoth as in June Lake or Lee Vining, went there for many years and love that area. Used to ski Mammoth in the 70's, Good memories there. :)

June Lake. Worked for Mono County and ran the community center, plus took care of the park on Gull Lake. Also helped out with Mono Basin facilities in summer (campgrounds up Tioga and Lundy; the parks at Lee Vining and north shore of Mono Lake; cemtery on north shore of Mono Lake). In winter helped with Mammoth/Crowley Lake stuff (old county offices near the Pioneer Deli; the old sheriff substation, Hilton Creek Community Center - now sheriff substation).

In 1994 moved back to Big Pine and lived there until 2008 when I came to Winnemucca.

My website, linked below my signature line, has many of my travels and trails in the Big Pine, Owens Valley and Mammoth areas. And more and more Winnemucca & vicinity.

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~When You Live in Nevada, "just down the road" is anywhere in the line of sight within the curvature of the earth.


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 Post subject: Re: Propane
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:57 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:54 pm
Posts: 139
Location: las Vegas
there is a difference in the way the propane is used. the propane for your bbq works off of the vapor in the tank and the propane for vehicles works off of the liquid in the tank. and yes be careful handling propane because it boils at 200 plus degrees below 0. will cause severe burns. dont ask how i know but 30 plus years working on propane powered forklifts, you run into a few problems.

ed

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